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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  November 9, 2017 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

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the incumbent mayor by 6 points. take a lesson, it is never too late to get involved with your local goflvernment. "the beat" starts now. we begin with breaking news could hinder republican election prospects in the senate and which is much more important, to be sure, than campaign politics. roy moore won an upset battle with a boost from steve bannon. moore was ousted from a judicial post over the crusade to erect a ten commandments monument. laws on sexual contact with minors. he is accused of pursuing a sexual encounter with a 14-year-old when he was 32. this according to have been reported in the "washington post." breaking tonight, the accuser is on the record under her own name.
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she alleges when moore was a prosecutor, he approach her and her mother during a nearby child custody hearing. then he took her a few days later and drove her to his home in the woods where allegedly he engaged in sexual contact. and two of the childhood friends say she told them at the time about this alleged contact. mitch mcconnell already saying moore must step aside if the allegations are true. he denies the allegations as garbage and baseless political attacks. the allegations are especially striking because moore has built his entire career on self-proclaimed religious righteousness. >> our rights don't come from government. they don't come from the bill of rights. they come from almighty god. >> maybe, just maybe, we've distanced ourselves from the one that has us in his hands to heal this land. >> tonight, moore, the
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republican senate nominee, stands accused of one of the most serious sex crimes, sexual contact with a minor. he has argued consensual adults of the sail gender should be illegal. >> homosexual conduct should be illegal. >> there we are. and i'm going right to my panel. zaifd a speech writer. joan walsh, national affairs correspondent at "the nation." joan, beginning with you. your reaction to this set of allegations. this wol speaking out on the record. and coming against a politician who has made moral and even perceived sexual morality. the center piece of his entire political career. >> we've seen it before. he appears to be now a kind of creepy hypocrite. as journalist, we're all journalists. we've seen good work and bad work. this reporting by these three female, should i add,
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"washington post" reporters has, it is the hallmark of good reporting. we've got four women on the record and we've got about another 25 sources who were told about these various contacts in real-time. we've got mother of the 14-year-old victim. the victim is now, i believe voorks. who feels guilty looking back at the fact this man preyed on this young woman, said he would take care of her so her mother didn't have to bring her into a child custody hearing. so it is just a set of accusations, so foul. and the fighting back now is, it's fake news from the national democrats. that's just not true. there's no evidence of that. and i would like to hear more republicans than senator john mccain. he is the only one who came out and said he has to step aside. everybody else is saying if this is true. how do you determine if it is true? 30 people on the record isn't good for you? i misspoke. i don't think all 30 are on the record.
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but the four women, their names are on the record. they're trump voters. they live, i believe all of them still live in alabama. they are hurting and embarrassed. i don't know what more the republican establishment will need to say, this sounds very believable and we're concerned and we need to you step aside. >> well, journalistically we're obligated to repeat he the denials and this will take time to ferret out. it has people on the record. when you look at this, roland, what do you think it means in a town, we're here in washington this town has seen its share of hypocrisy. but this suggests extreme hypocrisy. >> this is not what happens in d.c. it is what happens in alabama. i want to know what will happen with these white conservative evangelicals. will they make a judgment or will they moralize and say we forgive. you already have the alabama
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auditor who has made this utterly ridiculous comment saying, mary was a teenager and joseph was an adult and they had jesus. so it's not necessarily legal. keep in mind, you had someone accused of domestic violence. alabama officials waited a very long time to go against him. the first one to say he needs to withdraw and forced the others to come out. what do white conservative he evangelicals. >> the alabama state auditor, quote, because you said it. and i heard it. but i thought, wow, is everyone at home processing that? take joseph and mary. mary was a teenager and joseph was an adult carpenter. they became parents of jesus. there's just nothing immoral or legal.
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maybe a little unusual. i will say as a journalist, it is illegal. >> i have to say as a, someone who was raised catholic. the principle that mary actually did not conceive the normal way, that this was a virgin birth, that she was, god sent jesus to her and joseph took care of him. there was nothing inappropriate, shall we say about, that. >> stop reading the bible. >> i think we need to get drawn down this theological -- >> we're way out of my lane of religious expertise, david. go ahead. >> here are a couple of expectations. >> i expect there will be more revvations. someone who has done this, this many times in the same way. obviously, assuming the stories are true, they do seem credible. there's a pattern here and it will repeat. there will be more such cases that i imagine we'll hear. >> second, look, the moral test
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is 366 days in the rear view mirror. republicans will rally to him. the shock always diminishes. if within the first 24 hours, you're not out. you're probably staying. and daniel dale, of the star has been calling republican chairs all over the state. i don't think he's found one who is prepared to full plug on moore. and this is going to be a very important seat. moore will have the seat should he win for two years but throws the two years in which the tax plan will be voted. on and control of the senate is in the balance. 20 scene a very difficult, precarious year. if the seat is given away in 2017, it could well be decisive to the outcome majority of the senate. >> they're not worried about that. first and foremost, article 1, section 5. the senate does not have to seat him even if he wins. republicans in alabama will likely say we have limited options to remove him from the
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ballot. polls show he is up 17 points. the strategy is whether they are staying out, whether he beats doug jones. if he wins, the senate chooses not to seat him. the governor makes another appointment who is a republican will appoint a republican. the hope is that he can still beat doug jones in the general election. that's the issue. they control levels of power. >> that's too many moving parts feflt wins, he will be seated and he will be, just like the congressman who beat up a journalist. people thought that was unusual. but he is seated. a crucial part of tax reform coalition. look, the republican hold on power is very precarious. the record of legislation is very thin. and i think a lot of republicans at some level know, they have only a certain number of months to make their impress on the record before events catch up. >> for a party that is
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evangelical and dealing with someone who was claiming to be religious moral leader, what does that tell us? >> it fells white evangelicals do not care. you look at jerry falwell jr., tony perkins, you look at how they have defended anything and everything donald trump has done. they don't care. white conservative evangelicals also care about power. all they care about is a right wing judge on the supreme court. all they care about are the same judges on the bench. as i've said before, they are not about the prophetic, they care about profit. that's their focus. >> let me go back to joan on one more point. roy moore is someone many of us have followed for a long time. he was making his signature issue. the ten commandments statue. it can't be said enough. shakespeare, house of cards. i'm out of references. if you know me, it is hard for
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me to run out of references. i will read to you his other defining position and the undercurrents that david was elucidatin elucidating. a dual elected member of congress should not be allowed in congress because of his religion which happens to be muslim. >> and he denied a lesbian mother custody of her child, even though her ex-husband apparently had some abuse allegations against him because she was a lesbian. so as he real enemy of freedom, of gay and lesbian people, of women, people of color. i want to sound like thement on mist which i rarely am. since last november 8. but i think you have to look at virginia. i know, david. i'm not saying that alabama is virginia. i've been there. it is not virginia. i'm not saying that. but i would like to look at virginia with the women rising
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up and running. and possibly helping democrats to take over the state house tuesday night. i don't think alabama women will sleep through this. and i hope that there's some good local and national organizing around it that is trans party. you can't treat women like this anymore. >> in virginia, the local democratic party chose a candidate for governor who fit with the voters they needed to win in the state. in alabama for reasons i don't understand, i'm not a democrat, they wanted a national liberal icon. not a competitive liberal candidate. >> and the last thing we didn't get to because it is early in the story. whether any law enforcement as effect on more recent charges also impacts this race. we're not there yet but we have seen patterns before. stay with me. there is another thing we have to get to later in the show. coming up, nbc has new reporting on. this trump 2013 trip to moscow. his long time bodyguard talking
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about key claims in the dossier. trump allies say it helps. and also, jeff sessions is being called back to congress after the revelations cast what could only be called serious doubts on his statements. and later, shawn parker famously played by justin timberlake in the movie, but now he is taking on the facebook effect on our society. >> it literally changes your relationship with society, with each other. god only knows what it is doing to our children's brains. >> i have a special report on that and mark zuckerberg next. first, chris matthews is here speaking about his new book and the democrats' big win this week. you're watching "the beat."
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president trump's long time bodyguard keith schiller told house investigators that during the 2015 trip to moscow, a
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russian offered to send five women to trump's hotel room. sources telling ken dilianan, he saw it as a joke. trump allies said that it was another rebuttal to allegations in the dossier that trump himself has raised. >> it is all fake news. phony stuff. it didn't happen. it was a group of points that got together. sick people. and they put that crap together. does anyone really believe that story? i'm also very much of a germ phobe, by the way. >> today, schiller's lawyer also says these leaks about his new testimony are coming from partisan insiders from the house russia probe. wave panel but i want to begin with a news report from ken dillanian. >> the reason the bodyguard was asked about this, this dossier,
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written by the former british officer alleges that donald trump was co-victoriaing with prostitutes. he says he was in a business meeting at lunch time and a russian participant offered to send five women to donald trump's hotel room. keith schiller said he took that offer as a joke but he turned it down. then later he discussed it with donald trump as they were walking to trump's room for donald trump to go to bed. he said he stood outside the door for a time and then went to bed himself. democrats drilled down on schiller couldn't say what happened after he left trump's hotel room. but he said what happened in the dossier didn't happen. >> and briefly, you can have democrats put up any type of theory about what may have happened in their imagined minds in a hotel room bust the new information we're getting here, from this testimony, is a person saying this stuff didn't happen. >> that's right.
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a former nypd detective under oath saying this didn't happen. >> let me bring in nick ackerman. prosecutors sometimes look at things more aggressively than others. >> i view this as an absolutely dynamite development. to me, this confirms the steele report in the dossier that this did happen. >> how does it do that when you have a bodyguard saying, no. >> because you've got a bodyguard who is a long time loyalist. who actually admitted that trump was offered five women up to his hotel room. you have to ask yourself. why did he make admission? from a prosecutor's standpoint, my guess would be, he had to do it because other people who are honest, who are third parties, overheard that admission. overheard that statement.
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and so keith schiller had no choice but to admit to that unless he wanted to put himself into a perjury box. he pulled the old selective memory trick. yeah, i remember he what everybody else remembered about the offer. i do remember when we went back to the hotel room no, one will be able to testify to that. it was just me, president trump some russians who are never going to testify to that. >> to me, this is extremely disturbing. >> so i think what we want to look at here is why trump had this offer in the first place. and when investigators are looking is that this 2013 trip to moscow, they may want to know how were the russians already doing this, what they could be getting on him what they could be holding over him later in exchange for influence. at this point he was not a political influencer but he was a very wealthy individual in the
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u.s. show the will be of interest to investigators who want to know how russia was trying to pin trump at this early period in time. >> do you want to give a score card? a lot of retookss your piece. the daily caller today, a conservative site, says no, this helps trump. >> i wouldn't go so far as nick went. i think it is interesting and notable, the idea of russian women to donald trump's hotel room was raised. you can't imagine that offer being made to barack obama or george w. bush. i think that's why people are reacting to this. as she said, there is a history of russian, particularly at this hotel. it is reputed to be wired for sound and video by the russian intelligence services. >> would you need more though, right? >> you don't have proof beyond a reasonable doubt or even a preponderance of the evidence. if you look at the caring of the
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individual involved. you look at the witness involved. and his closeness to trump. the fact that he even mention that's there is an offer of five women to go to his hotel room and you compare that to the steele dossier, it corroborates half the story. it is not like there was nothing ever said about prostitutes or women. >> as we always get, a theory of the case. we may be talking about this again at some point. thank you all. up next, jeff sessions facing new questions about lying about meetings with russians. a democrat on the meeting who will question him next week is here. and his wrenching fight over whether to stand up to trump more forcefully. chris matthews talks about that and his new book, on "the beat" tonight. lower back pain has met its match.
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jeff sessions down playing his contact with russians. he'll be asked about this. >> i didn't have communication with the russians. and i'll unable to comment on it. >> you don't believe that surrogates from the trump campaign had communications with the russians. is that what you're saying? >> i did not and i'm not aware of anyone else that did. >> that isn't true. and we know that because of mueller's new indictment. meanwhile, carter page also alleging he told sessions he was talking with the russians. meanwhile, ted lu. he and 16 of his colleagues have sent a letter demanding answers about all of this. what do you want to ask jeff sessions? >> let me say i don't even know why he is still our attorney general. he lied under oath at least
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twice. those are felonies. he should have resigned long ago. >> do you consider attorney general sessions an unindicted felon at this point? >> absolutely. this is not jay walking. this is lying to congress under oath tow get confirmed. so there's not only a statute on perjury. a second federal statute that says you can't lie to congress. it is such a big deal. he shouldn't even be attorney general. i do look forward to having him in the house judiciary committee this coming tuesday and asking him questions. >> that's a strict reading. you said your application of that law would be to remove him from office and have further sanctions. the flip side, is the concern laid out as well by some of your colleagues that there may be some sort of effort to set up jeff sessions for a fall so donald trump can pick a new attorney general who would have more control over bob mueller. your view of that? >> that is a legitimate point of
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view. i've thought about it but i've also concluded that the rule of law is more important. we can't have our nation's top law enforcement official have committed perjury. those are felonies. what's keeping donald trump from trying to fire robert mueller is not really jeff sessions. it is political pressure and the history of watergate. he knows full well, when richard nixon fired three d.o.j. officials, that led to his down fall. >> so you're saying this recusal which lawyers fixate on is less of the motivating factor than the wider impact of what it would mean to have donald trump fire anyone. >> absolutely. i am convinced if donald trump fires special counsel mueller, he will be impeached. >> do you think donald trump thinks so? >> i have no idea what the president thinks. i really don't. back to jeff sessions, not only did he lie under oath to
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congress. he also submitted a false sf 86 can security form. i have filled these out. on that it says if you submit misleading information or over mit information, that's also a felony. he checked the box saying he had no contacts with russians. >> back to the story we were reporting on earlier. this new testimony from president trump's bodyguard about offers made in moscow. your view of that report? >> i think that's pretty important testimony. it corroborates that russia would do these kinds of things. they will try the blackmail you. they certainly offered his son five women to see donald trump. that's a pretty important fact. now we know this is how the russians operate. >> interesting. congressman lew congressman lieu, thank you for being here. this is facebook's first president, famously played by justin till better lake. some new serious criticisms
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accused of obstructing justice to theat the fbinuclear war, and of violating the constitution by taking money from foreign governments and threatening to shut down news organizations that report the truth. if that isn't a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i'm tom steyer, and like you, i'm a citizen who knows it's up to us to do something. it's why i'm funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress once impeached a president for far less. yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger who's mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and start doing what's right. our country depends on it.
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a big week in politics and chris matthews here with me. the democrat sweep this week has many forecasting they can win the mid terms and take subpoena power. the obvious implication is democrats would be tougher on trump than republicans. there has always been partisanship but it is worth
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remembering it wasn't always this way. one of the investigative priorities was bad for his party. he targeted and investigated some of the most powerful labor leaders in the democratic party. rfk pleading for legislation to deal with groups criticizing both parties to act. >> if the people themselves take an interest. if people contact their congressmen to vote. you have no group pushing the legislation. >> the investigations were so politically risky, the candidate fought against his own father's concern that investigating democrats could hurt jfk's presidential ambitions. these questions of principle over party resonated in the trump era. ug eeg mccarthy, lbj over vietnam. that led bobby kennedy, the most iconic democrat alive, to also challenge lbj. the most powerful democrat in the country. it was a decision he agonized
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over. but as chris matthews writes in his new book, kennedy's desire to you with a they'll country's wounds. close the gap between rich and poor, black and white. and he joked that he would be splitting the democratic party in three pieces. principle over party. it is what mccarthy and bobby kennedy agonized over and acted on. today maybe republicans are wondering if there is a leader in their midst to follow that path to eventually challenge president trump. joining me now is author chris matthews. the book is bobby kennedy, a raging spirit. it debuted at number two on the best seller list. is there an rfk type leader today? >> no. i think we can keep looking for one. i think the democrats had an empty bench because they thought hillary would be president for eight years and that turned out not to be the case. so they're left without a first string to throw out to the country. i think what makes bobby the
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untrump was that he focused on empathy. he really did care about people in trouble. he cared about mccarthy, joe mccarthy when he became an old drunk, killing himself with booze. he went out and looked for people to care about. he went out to the police miss delta and looked for kids with distended stomachs and living on molasses all day. he cared about the poor whites. he didn't dismiss they will as archie bunkers or deplorables. he worried about people on the back of the book who had nothing. and i think he was good at that. he was good at adding to, not subtracting from the democratic party. >> this book is fascinating in each chapter, literally, figuratively of his life. it came alive the most to me when you explore the choice he had to make over vietnam and lbj. and you vote from jack newfield who wrote, if kennedy doesn't run in' 68, the best side of his
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character will die. it will die every time a kid asks if he is so much against vietnam, how come he is putting party above principle. >> he went through everything he could not to run. he said with ted sorensen and he went over the meet with the new secretary of defense secretly at the pentagon, trying to work out some kind of commission that would be a soft landing for johnson's war policy. some way johnson could use it, that they could agree to change the policy. pull back from the hawks. and at the end, johnson wouldn't go along with it and he had to announce. he did not the want to have to run. the reason i don't think he wanted to run was what you just talked about in the introduction. bobby wanted to replace his brother jack as president. he wanted to come in. bring back the new frontier. begin to work on all the things jack had worked on. everything. he knew he had it in '72. it would be handed to him. >> it would be easy. >> all the party regulars would say, bobby, it's now your turn. johnson is finished. you can take over.
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so wasn't like with mccarthy. mccarthy will nothing to lose. he was our hero growing up. we all supported him in the beginning. we never thought he could beat johnson. it would take a bobby kennedy to beat johnson. >> you write about emotion. you write about the grieving that he went through and you liken it to somebody going through a war. and you write, it was time to tough it out. now we have a richer language for emotion or trauma. >> i think you're right. i think it was ptsd and imagine you devote your entire life, your adult life, he gets out of law school. he wanted to be a prosecutor. you make a decision like that. everything he did was to prosecute the bad guys. he was going after the bad guys. and then his brother said, i need to you win this election for senate. and he gave up everything and went and looked for him. then mccarthy, he was a good guy's bad guys kinds of guy. my job is to get bad guys. somewhere in his life, near end,
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the last five years, he said there's no point in chasing villains forever. eventually they destroy themselves. eventually, the mass killers, the assassins, they're dead or whatever. and em, i'll going to focus on victims. >> you mentioned law school. the commitment to civil rights. there is a lot of talk as you know in america about states rights. a lot of talk about statues these days. and you quote him tearing through what he viewed as this false choice. and you quote him saying, how long can we say, to a negro in jackson, when war comes, you'll be an american citizen. but in the meantime,000 just a citizen of mississippi and we can't help you. >> right. he became a real champion of civil rights. he got involved in the struggle. i think he was shocked at the hatred down south. at one point he said to his people down there, when he was about to bring in the federal trumans to get james meredith
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registered. he said if anybody lays a hands on this guy, shoot him. he was not going to put up with anybody killing a guy who was a good american he, an air force veteran, had worked his way, had good grades in school. he was a perfecty in applicant for college and the only way they rejected him, because they would not register a black guy at the university. so here's the primary university of the state of mississippi. unavailable for black people. and bobby said that's over. >> chris matthews, thank you. an honor to be here in your town in washington. >> thank you for your lead-in every night. bobby kennedy, the raging spirit. a story of one of america's greatest figures. and "hardball" right after "the beat." don't gofully where. and up ahead, facebook's down side from a man who knows the site better than almost anywhere else.
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>> how do we consume as much of your time and conscious attention as possible? and that means that we need to sort of give you a little dopamine hit every once in a while because someone commented or liked a post. >> speaking out about what's wrong facebook. i'm going to build on his citizen week a message for mark zuckerberg next. more people shop online for the holidays than ever before. (clapping) and the united states postal service delivers more of those purchases to homes than anyone else in the country. ( ♪ ) because we know, even the smallest things are sometimes the biggest.
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a million-dollar isn't cool. do you know what's cool? >> you? >> a billion dollars. >> justin timberlake famously played sean parker, the billionaire tech guru who befriended mark zuckerberg in the early days. he said it stoked social media
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addiction. >> the thought process that went into building these applications, facebook being the first of them, was all about how do we consume as much of your time and conscious attention as possible. that means we need to give you a little don't mean hit once in a while because someone liked or commented on a photo or a post. >> he said that dopamine engages customers and made $300 million and made zuckerberg a billionaire. facebook has become so dominant that addictive business model is reshaping society. >> literally changes your relationship with society, with each other, with, you know, it probably interferes with productivity in weird ways. god only knows what it is doing to our children's brains. >> god may know. but so do tests with magnetic resonance imaging.
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it shows when teenagers see their own photos get liked on instagram, they get a jolt to the brain the same as winning money and eating chocolate. powerful. now parker says and he zuckerberg understood that consciously. >> the inventors, creators, it is me, mark, kevin's sister on instagram. all of these people understood this consciously. and we did it anyway. >> these are not the first businessmen to hook people with catchy products. while it gets more complex marketing to children, we are responsible for how we use products. but sean parker's candor here, facing tech tradeoffs and the impact on society is a welcome change from mark zuckerberg who has been defensive when facebook is criticized for its impact or
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fake news. >> studies have proven the more connected we are, the hamer we are and the healthier we are too. >> personally, i think the idea that fab news on facebook, it is a very small amount of the content, influenced the election in any way, i think is a pretty crazy idea. i think we're very transparent. >> are you even allowed at this stage, mark, to express any doubt, or to show any signs of pressure because so many people are watching you so closely? and parsing every word you say so carefully? >> you know, it's funny. i've noticed that the press and the world's opinion of us really goes in cycles. >> if there are cycles, they're not all arbitrary. we've been reporting on facebook more reebltly because one, it was a key platform for fake news and propaganda in the election.
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and two, when that was exposed, the company initially denied the facts. it all goes back to a misleading concept we've reported on before. facebook likes the pretend it is neutral and treats neutrality as a road to more money and less regulation. that's why cheryl sandberg who got her stat in the clinton administration can claim it has no politics. sitting next on mark zuckerberg, we're not experts on the political process. and zuckerberg said, politics is, quote, above my pay grade. is politics above your pay grade, snark it wasn't above your pay grade when you held a fund-raiser at your hole for chris christie when he was planning presidential bid in 2013. or when you personally donated to marco rubio, paul ryan, orrin hatch or democrats like nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, or when your company's pac spent over $600 billion about, 55% of the gop and 44% to democrats. how do you donate to candidates
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and host political fund-raisers and say you're not involved in politics? how does a website publish a daily news feed and say it is not in volved in news and how does a business failsly sell ads in rubbles and then tell us it is smocked russians bought these political ads. now maybe if you have enough money in silicon valley, you can say anything and people act like it's logical. maybe facebook doesn't know how ridiculous it sounds which is why it keeps having to claim. let me be clear. at this point, mark, we don't even know if you know you were wrong that fake news or you really believed it had no impact on this election. maybe you've been down so long, it all looks like up to you. but you and your site are too important to keep doing this badly. because facebook is the back bone of the internet. facebook is global. and as sean park he's character
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bristol-myers squibb thanks the patients, nurses, and physicians involved in opdivo clinical trials. no one, we have summed up the mood of the country better than a cyclist who went viral last week for giving the president's motorcade the finger. long may she wave. >> as future says, you're going viral for the family.
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the cyclist did flash the middle finger at president's motorcade in washington. a photographer with the "guardian "captured that moment. when they had that salute, seen around the world, so right now the threatening e-mail messages and then she was fired from her marking job and she's the cyclist about the moment next to the motorcade. >> i was fairly certain it was the president and i got angry and i started thinking about all the things that are wrong with this administration and i flipped him off. >> what angers you about president trump's leader scholarship or administration. so. i don't thi i wouldn't call it, they conduct policy by twitter.
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they kicked people out of the countries under daca and health care. i tried to send a message. it's between myself and him. the people who object that this was disrespectful to president trump. >> i would say i completely disagree. i don't think this president respects the office so i'm not going to respect the office or him. i respect his role on the world stage on the world stage the national stage.
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>> first correspondent of the nation kerry sheffield, a conservative and founder of bold media, because this is something that's getting a lot of discussion, joan. i don't know why things go viral. i don't know if you know. but in talking to julie, it's clear she has touched some kind of nerve on both sides. your view of this as a political piece of action or speech from a citizen. >> i think she's perfectly within her rights and i think she's great. i think she's a national hero. i think she did what a lot of us would do if we came across the motorcade, ari, the idea she lost her job is absolutely outrageous. she went to the company. she said this happened, she said this is the person in the picture. they retaliated against her. i can't believe it. >> kerry, if one quibbles with this form of expression which is legal and protected and lawful by the constitution, do you think the person should have lost her job? >> well, i certainly respect fer right to express herself in the
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way she did. we have the first amendment. i also respect the company's right to respond and their right to the first amendment and their right of freedom of association under the constitution, it's the same thing. i definitely would not call her a national hero. she was talking about the fact that there was bulletproof glass. i would hope the president is protected. you don't have to respect the president to respect the fact this is a free country and we have freedom of expression and frankly on the left, we seen people shutting down freedom of the speech on campus, we see on berkeley shutting down, we see violence, steve scalise a -- gunned down. >> you mentioned two things, one a horrific shooting or assassination attempt and two free speech. both important topics, but as you know, kerry, not the actual topic, we invited you on to debate. we can always change the subject of debates, this debate is about this speech. i want to play four president trump and the way he speaks about people. because the respect that some allies of his are demanding
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doesn't seem to be something in the office of president he is sharing with everyone else, take a listen on the nfl. >> wouldn't you love to see one of these nfl owners when somebody disrespects our flag to say, get that son of a bitch off the field right now? out. he's fired! he's fired! it's a total disrespect of our heritage, that's a total disrespect of everything that we stand for. >> considerry, on that, i'll ask you and joan can respond as well. if you didn't like julie's vulgarity quote/unquote, what about the president's there? >> sure, well, i mean the president has the first amendment right as well as the players have their first maemd right too, which i respect both. i also respect the nfl's right to respond to that, so it is freedom of speech the way you have a victory in freedom of speech is to not shut down freedom of speech, it's to have more speech, to have dialogue. we need tore left aptd right actually dialogueing.
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i under u understand where he is coming from. i was a never trump conservative. i am concerned about the rhetoric and then candidate trump as well. i get that, the response i seen from the resistance i found very troubling, it's mirroring and doing the same thing, we have toll ransz, inclusion. i don't see that happening. >> i don't see how giving someone a finger is not incluchlths she didn't confront him verbally, although she would have been within her rights to do it. she riding a bicycle. she sees him, she does it spontaneously on her own time, i think it's defensible an crazy she got fired. she alleges there were people making ugly social media posts about libtards at her company that were not puppished punish firebird. so there seems to be a double standard here. >> i asked the question of kerry, joan, i will ask you the question as well. we're if debate club here. here are some of the controversial things that donald trump said famously about his
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opponents and all the nicknames, everyone remembers them, some are racially incendiary about senator warren, some are silly like little marco, they range and many people in the country and not just the resistance, joan, say this is demeaning. our politics. having stipulated the rights here and the idea peel shouldn't have a chilling effect or lose their jobs over it, what about the stylistic point, joseph cornelius, it's better for the resistance not to go down that road that looks as kerry argued a little like trump. >> it's not like elizabeth warren gave the president a finger. a private citizen did it. riding her private bicycle. didn't know anyone was dprafing her. it's not as if hillary clinton, chris gillibrand, bernie sanders, went out and gave trump the finger. a private individual did it. she got caught. it went viral, a lot of us really saluted her, but, you know, i probably wouldn't do it. i wouldn't do it publicly.
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i will trash him with words, but i probably wouldn't do that. >> jane walsh, kerry sheffield, a debate clearly a lot are having. thank you for our show. chris matthew was here on "the beat." now he's on "hardball." stay tuned, chris matthew's "hardball" up next. trouble in alabama. let's play "hardball." >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington with an explosive story from alabama. according to washington post today, a woman has come forward to accuse republican senate candidate roy moore of forcing her into a sexual encounter back in 1979 when she was 14-years-old. moore is the steve bannon backed insurgent and former chief justice in the alabama supreme court who refused to remove a


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